New Car

"The Dummy Gummy" (dummygummy)
09/07/2015 at 22:12 • Filed to: new car, car buying, subaru

Happy Labor Day all! Oppo, I’ve gone done, did it now. I bought a new car for my wife. I finally found a dealer that was exceptionally professional and simply offered a great price out the gate.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Finding what type of car to choose was the easy part. My wife knew exactly what she wanted after driving my Subaru in the winter. She really wanted the boxy Subaru Forester. When winter comes I’ll get her Blizzak’s and I expect it to be an absolute beast.

I did my research to see what everyone was paying for the new 2016 Forester Limited’s with the popular package #2. This dealership offered below what I saw everyone getting. I couldn’t believe it. The whole process took about 2hrs and would have been about a half hour faster if it wasn’t for my insurance. It took over a half hour to get the new insurance paper work because apparently they didn’t know how to use a fax machine. I can’t blame as I don’t even know what that is (kidding).

When I go to upgrade my car I will definitely be going back to that dealership. I highly recommend this car to everyone. It has exceeded my expectations. I know there are many complaints about the CVT, but I don’t think it is that bad. It feels like a luxury car the way it rides. I was expecting it to feel a lot of the road as I do in the Impreza, but it is really impressive how quiet and comfortable the ride is. I actually think it rides better than the A6 and X5.

DISCUSSION (27)

Tom McParland > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:21

Foresters are so hot right now.

Nicely done.

Big Bubba Ray > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:25

Nice buy! My neighbor picked up a 2014 Fozzie about a year ago with CVT and even though people shit on them all the time, it does just fine for what she needs. I’ve had plenty of wheel time with it and it’s a great car. Enjoy the subie!

The Dummy Gummy > Big Bubba Ray
09/07/2015 at 22:31

Thanks! I was shocked at how much visibility was in the car. I honestly don’t think there is a blind spot.

The Dummy Gummy > Tom McParland
09/07/2015 at 22:31

Thanks! I totally get why. They are such a nice ride with great AWD at a reasonable price. Subaru’s reliability is also a testament to it’s own.

Boxer_4 > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:32

This generation Forester is very nice (much more refined than my 09 Limited). The CVT is a huge improvement over the old 4EAT. Fuel economy especially so. While I typically see 20/26 city/highway, my parents typically see 25/33 city/highway in my mom’s 15 Limited.

Enjoy your 16 Limited!

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:36

That sunroof is amazing!

We considered them. A lot. Test drove them like 3 times. Got all sorts of price quotes.

Just didn’t like the dealer all that much and felt it was a little underpowered for our tastes.

But if you have snow and need something that will never fall apart and hold its value, there is nothing that comes close

The Dummy Gummy > Boxer_4
09/07/2015 at 22:37

We haven’t driven too much, but I was hitting about 28mpg highway, but I’ll report back the mileage we get once she’s broken in. I hope it is like my car and get’s better than the expected rated fuel economy. My ‘08 at a ripe 115k gets 29-30MPG on the highway and that’s going around 80MPH. I can’t say anything other than I love the brand.

Boxer_4 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
09/07/2015 at 22:41

Kinja'd!!!

Such a great sunroof!

The Dummy Gummy > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
09/07/2015 at 22:42

The sunroof is unreal. When the guy opened it up, I had to pick my mouth up off the car floor haha.

I tried to get her (my wife) to get the turbo, but I failed. She drives a lot too so she couldn’t ration the idea of more power for less MPG and premium fuel trade off. I didn’t think it was too bad for an SUV. She didn’t mind and since it was her car I didn’t really care.

That was the thing, the snow. We get a ton of it and my car little car beasted through it last winter so she was set on getting this. You are right about the value. It is crazy used Forester is only like $1-3k less than a brand new car. It didn’t make sense to us to take the gamble on how someone treated the used car when we will own the car for another 10 years.

dogisbadob > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:49

Congrats on the new car!

Boxer_4 > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:50

The 15 definitely saw an increase in fuel economy after it had a few thousand miles on it. Is your 08 a 4EAT or 5-speed? The 4EAT tends to kill fuel economy in my experience. Even the 12 Outback 3.6R (5EAT) sees better highway fuel economy than my 09 Forester.

We have 3 Subarus in the immediate family (and many more with extended family and friends) and I think we are all in love with the brand.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > The Dummy Gummy
09/07/2015 at 22:57

That’s how my car is, 30/40 rated, 35/42 actual.

The Dummy Gummy > dogisbadob
09/07/2015 at 23:02

Thanks!

The Dummy Gummy > Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
09/07/2015 at 23:02

That is awesome!

The Dummy Gummy > Boxer_4
09/07/2015 at 23:04

I unfortunately had to get an automatic because it was impossible to find a 5speed when I was buying. My next car will be manual though. I can’t stand not having that car as a manual.

Subaru love! They make it so easy when they also love nature, family and dogs.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 00:08

As a 4-cylinder appliance... it is good.

It falls down when comparing to anything with nicer amenities, or V6 power.

Even the XT with a turbo that is supposed to be a 6-cylinder substitute, it isn’t as smooth as a 6 cylinder, even Toyota’s V6 RAV-4 (and only that, it is not a WRX in CUV format, nothing else is sporty on the FXT.)

It isn’t as good looking as the previous 09-13 Forester. It isn’t as well equipped as an Outback, or other more premium 5-passenger CUVs.

But the Center of Gravity is nice and low, without giving up ground clearance, and it’s AWD is better than rear-assist haldex-type stuff on other transverse-engined competitors.

The bad thing is, If it wasn’t living in WRX and Outback’s shadow, it could be PHENOMENAL with more amenities, and a smooth H6 option for the touring model, and a 260+ hp manual-gearbox WRX/STI equivalent sport model.

People have swapped STI drivetrains into Foresters, and made something arguably better than both, being more versatile and practical, and pretty much just as fast and fun on the road, and in the snow. Maybe not quite as flat-cornering on a track, but that is what WRX and STI can still do anyway.

The Dummy Gummy > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
09/08/2015 at 00:44

Wasn’t looking for an analysis on why the car isn’t good, but thanks for you dissertation. She doesn’t need more power it is a commuter car to get her to and fro. What amenities does it not have that you wish it had? It has everything we need and more; I mean hell the thing has an automatic rear gate (totally unneeded, but whatever).

The Toyota doesn’t hold a candle to the Forester in snowy weather. I think it looks better than the older Forester.

She was buying a commuter car and a car to transport kids, not a track car. Who takes SUV’s to the track anyways? Not everything needs to be a race car or track day car. I’m genuinely curious what amenities it doesn’t have that you want so bad.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 01:20

I didn’t mean that the car isn’t good, objectively. I meant that it isn’t as good as it could be, if Subaru would get it’s head on straight.

In traffic, power is like a defensive weapon used in self defense. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it, and not have it. And a car that can’t respond with authority when the chips are down, is a car with less safety margin to AVOID trouble, than a car with enough power, and quick throttle response. A safe car in an accident is only half the equation. A safe car that can avoid the accident with defensive driving, lives to drive another day. And the best defense is sometimes a good offense, and getting the car to move itself out of harm’s way.

Subaru doesn’t have retained accessory power, or at least didn’t just a couple of years ago. The infotainment systems are crap, and barely capable of audio input, and the navigation is legendary for poor user interface, and most don’t have bluetooth speakerphone to keep things hands-free.

keyless entry and pushbutton start. Until you live without having to take your keys out of your pocket (or your wife not having to futz with keys out of the depths of a purse, while trying to carry bags, and wrangle kids, or whatever else...) and just sit down, and push-button start, and go. Subaru barely offers it as an option, and surely not on lower-trim Foresters.

Power lift gate is another amenity that one doesn’t realize how handy it is, until you find out how convenient it is while trying to wrangle bags and kids and stuff. It is easy to dismiss it without having experienced it. It isn’t a necessity, but is much more user friendly when it has been experienced.

Automatic headlights and high-beams are nice... but I might not base my car buying on that, and wouldn’t miss it much. I would miss HID illumination levels, though.

I looked HARD for an 09-13 Forester, especially when I thought I wanted a 2.5i Premium 5-speed, because of the 5-speed.

I bought a 2009 well-maintained Toyota Venza FULLY LOADED V6 AWD with all the amenities I listed, plus being wide and comfortable, with plenty of rear leg room and reclining rear seats, ACTUALLY FUNCTIONAL dual climate control (my 05 Legacy GT Limited was only useable in manual mode), and the dual-pane sunroof. It also is only a second slower to 60mph than my Turbo 5-speed Legacy GT was, and cruises effortlessly, due to a plateau of torque.

It is also a wider vehicle, rather than having a taller roof, so the CG is still manageable, and the interior volume is useable floor space, rather than air above everyone’s head in the cabin.

Aside from the AWD, the Venza is a better Outback than Outback, and with depreciation, it was cheaper than FAR less equipped, and far less powerful, and significantly smaller used Forester. It was a screaming deal compared to a used Outback or 5-passenger Tribeca. Used Subarus were mere hundreds of dollars less than brand new equivalents in some cases. I paid roughly HALF what the loaded Venza would have retailed for brand new, and the car barely feels broken in. At 100K miles, my 05 Legacy was starting to show it’s age in noticeable ways. I hope that has improved in the last 10 years, and that the new ones wear better.

Too many plusses, and the AWD configuration was the only partial minus.

And my comment was that a Forester with an STI swap doesn’t need to be a track vehicle, because it is a CUV, and because people would buy a WRX or STI sedan for that purpose.

However, 3oohp, 6-speed, DCCD-AWD, high-performance CUV with ground clearance, also with speed and traction, and enough room for 4-5 people and some gear... would be amazing as a road vehicle, for someone who wants their car to be both their practical go-everywhere-anytime daily driver, and their FUN driver, it would do both.

I want badly to love Subaru again. I have owned two previously, and really liked them, but I don’t have rose colored glasses on, regarding the brand, and their product lineup.

The Dummy Gummy > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
09/08/2015 at 01:40

Reading this you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. I’m not going to waste my time breaking down why there are so many wrong statements in here, but your whole amenity write up is completely wrong and shows you lack knowledge about the new models.

We have lived with keyless cars as her last car had it and her current car has it too. This trim isn’t a lower trim; it is higher up and only bested by the touring.

Adding a new engine that gets less gas mileage and cost more isn’t practical at all; especially for someone who travels 600+ miles a week.

You do realize the 09-13 was 3-7 years ago right? Maybe do a little research before bashing a car you know nothing about or you could try the age old classic ‘if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all’.

Gripevo1 > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 01:43

Nice! Great car..ive driven a few of them. I also bought a car this weekend! 2016 mustang gt. Enjoy the sube!

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 02:11

I’ll admit I haven’t been inspired enough by subaru’s current lineup to waste brain-space on the intricacies of their 2015 models, but the information I have was current for 2014, and definitely on the 2013 outgoing model, which was not that long ago, and I doubt Subaru has leapt from near the bottom, to the top of the list of manufacturers offering the most amenities and choices in their lineup. They keep selling record numbers for them, which is still small percentages compared to the big manufacturers... and yet the cars continue to get more boring.

Have they even returned to offering an interior color choice, for any given paint color, or are they still locked in that choosing the paint dictates the interior? They KILLED that option of even choosing between two interior colors on any given paint code in 2006, which is why I had a 2005 Legacy GT 5-speed in garnet red with black leather. It wasn’t offered after that, and now it is a car they don’t even TRY to make anymore. Legacy is so boring now that I don’t even care to go to their website to find out whether they offer a manual gearbox on the base model Legacy anymore. The GT is gone, and the H6 has always been handicapped behind a torque-limited transaxle, keeping the H6 capped at a relatively low power level, compared to other industry 6-cylinder engines.

In 2004/2005, Legacy GT was so compelling, that I knew exactly the option package i wanted, and saved for TWO FULL YEARS to be able to buy it, and I owned that car for more than 7 years. Now, I couldn’t care less. I rescued an SVX from a California crusher to keep it on the road, when it simply had a cold start emissions check failure. I live in the midwest, and bought the Legacy from Vermont. I brought BOTH cars half way across the country, because I wanted them so much. Now, I couldn’t care less about most of Subaru’s new models, because they are about as exciting as watching paint dry, and aside from AWD, they aren’t value-competitive anymore. They used to be a better value, AND unique on the market.

The fact is, Forester is not a premium model in Subaru’s lineup, Outback is, and Subaru doesn’t have the economies of scale that much bigger manufacturer’s do, and their options list, color choices, and highly restricted package options show it.

Besides that, who can tell from the picture you posted, that it is a Limited package? It looks like a base model, because Subaru doesn’t actually do much to differentiate them.

If people only ever have good things to say, nobody ever would learn from constructive criticism, or just outright honesty about things that could be done better.

Subaru has been a victim of it’s own success, and now has become the beige that they used to contrast themselves from. BRZ doesn’t fit the brand, and WRX is a boy-racer sedan that wastes AWD traction on a lowered chassis that can’t clear a speed bump. My Legacy sedan couldn’t either. I am done with suspension repairs due to that arrangement versus broken crappy under-maintained pavement. Ground clearance and a bit of tire sidewall have become my friends, as well as a rear hatch which is MUCH better than a dinky trunk lid. There is no telling that to Subaru, who cancelled the hatch WRX and STI, and won’t turbocharge the XV Crosstrek, or tune up a sport version of Forester XT.

You keep track, and you let me know when they actually build something ACTUALLY compelling again, like they used to. I’ll wait, it is going to be a while.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 02:32

I apologize, I meant to edit out and remove that subaru-frustration rant. I am frustrated with them, not with you, so I didn’t mean to rain on your parade.

I was too late, and Kinja wouldn’t accept the edit after so many minutes.

I was comparing late-model used vehicles, and that was about a year ago, and I am still disappointed with what Subaru was offering, and that I couldn’t see my way to get another Subaru, because they were both under-optioned, and over-priced compared to their competitors. That isn’t exactly the same as comparing new cars, or the 2016 models.

I understand that the 2015 and 16 models may have some of the amenities I mentioned, but they SURE didn’t have them in 2013, let alone 2009. My Toyota is a 2009 model year, and has those features, as well as costing MUCH, MUCH less than a new Subaru at that time, or now.

I do genuinely hope you and your family truly do enjoy your new Subaru. I wish I could be excited about their new products, but after owning two previous, very good models that are no longer offered whatsoever, a Legacy GT Limited Turbo 5-speed, and an SVX LS-L H6-powered Grand Touring Coupe, I can’t bring myself to care much about Subaru’s current lineup, and I am disappointed in that fact. I want to like Subarus again, I just can’t bring myself to like what they are offering.

The Dummy Gummy > Gripevo1
09/08/2015 at 08:35

Congrats!! I loved my ‘14 Mustang 5.0. You’re going to love it. I had so much fun in that car. I unfortunately had to get rid of it when my commuting distance changed. I felt terrible putting 150miles on it a day; seemed like a sin. I can’t even imagine how much better it is with the new axle. Enjoy the pony!

The Dummy Gummy > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
09/08/2015 at 10:25

I read both, but I’m responding to your last miserable tirade. The amenities are equal to those offered by competitors. We actually got more than what the competitors offered for less money. To address some of your complaints prior, it’s bluetooth worked very well and synced on first pairing. The entertainment system was upgraded this year and it works really really well. Better than all the ones I’ve used in the past. With the upgrade came a service called Starlink (this may have been available in 2015, but not integrated the way it is now); which is meant to be a direct competitor with OnStar. It does have a massive sunroof that goes almost past the second row of seats (bigger than the one offered in the X3 & X5 for comparison sake). It also has upgraded sound system; dual zone if you want it, the eyesight which was ranked one of the best crash detection camera. They do offer multiple colors for interior, maybe not as many as others, but the colors they offered were the only colors we were even considering so it didn’t matter. The vehicle has ranked the top of every list for a couple years now, so to say they aren’t a competitive offering is very short sighted and wrong.

Besides that, who can tell from the picture you posted, that it is a Limited package?

Well if you read what I wrote in the third paragraph: “I did my research to see what everyone was paying for the new 2016 Forester Limited ’s with the popular package #2.”

If people only ever have good things to say, nobody ever would learn from constructive criticism, or just outright honesty about things that could be done better.

It isn’t constructive or honest when you have no idea what you’re talking about. You clearly know nothing about the new car and are only guessing from cars made years before. What you have done in these last few tangents is show your inability to stop and think what you are typing and be a complete an utter Debbie Downer.

under-optioned, and over-priced compared to their competitors

We were actually getting more for our money by choosing the Forester than the Honda CRV; which is priced higher than this car. This is before we even came out below invoice. The Rav4 was also much higher priced for the same options as the Forester. Heck the Rav4 was a grand more without the leather option added. I did look at it, but I would definitely never consider it for where I live because to say their AWD system is inferior would be an understatement. Making unfair comparisons over used older models pricing doesn’t really qualify.

As I said before ‘if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all.’ Also, try to lighten up, no one wants to be around someone who is negative.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > The Dummy Gummy
09/08/2015 at 11:29

Again, I do apologize, as my frustration is with Subaru, not with you.

I am glad to hear that Subaru has finally improved their infotainment options, as they have been abysmal in the past, and by that, I mean the recent past, and really, truly frustrating to use, and very limited. I am glad that has changed.

Again, I hope it works well for you and your family. I wish it had worked better for mine.

AWD superiority, and Subaru’s previous reputation for being a bastion of manual gearbox availability with said AWD, are two of the HUGE reasons that I am so upset that Subaru is not building better, more appealing products, as they used to. Legacy GT, Outback XT, Forester XT Sport with a manual gearbox, and any kind of an AWD sport coupe or GT... any H6 with a manual gearbox... all gone.

Best of luck to you, and your family, and I do hope you enjoy the Forester.

I wish there were a Subaru I could consider, and enjoy, but Forester 2.5X, nor the rest of the lineup currently, fits that bill for me the way they used to.

TulsaMtnBiker (OkieRising) > The Dummy Gummy
10/28/2015 at 22:33

Now that you’ve had it for a bit, how do you like it? Been thinking of getting one for the misses (until the price of XC90s drop).

The Dummy Gummy > TulsaMtnBiker (OkieRising)
10/29/2015 at 09:56

Let me start with, I really really enjoy it. I’m confident this car will keep my wife safe and be a comfortable commuting car.

I kind of get the complaints on the gear box, as it is a bit jumpy when shifting into gear, but other than that it is not as bad as everyone complains. I’m not trying to race around town in it, so maybe that is where there is a disconnect? It is a very very comfortable car to ride in. We have an ‘12 A6 too and I much prefer driving in the Subbie. The infotainment is great and easy to use. I wish it had more tactile buttons, but it isn’t too bad. Gas mileage is awesome. We were averaging 27.3 in the beginning, but it has gradually made its way up to 28ish as we put more miles in and break in the engine. Our city/highway split is about 40/60, so for an AWD SUV, I’m very happy with what we have achieved so far. I assume we will probably break 30’s once we fully break in the engine.

Sound system is drastically improved over older models (we also have an ‘08 Impreza). The road noise isn’t too bad. It is a pretty quiet ride and if you have the radio on low you won’t hear it at all. I’m still adjusting to the automatic closing trunk [little bit too fancy for me], but convenient for my wife.

Overall, like I said in the beginning I’m very happy with the purchase. My wife is ecstatic over the car. I feel much more at ease having this car going into the winter. Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

The XC90 is beautiful. Way out of our budget haha. I wish I could afford something like that. The commercial for that car always has me memorized/drooling.